What does everybody think? [Ett hål i mitt hjärta]

Discuss Lukas Moodysson's other films and films featuring actors in his films here.

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Postby droopy » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:27 am

There is a BIG difference between the two films (and I am not going to name both of them in one sentence again).

Fucking Åmål is REAL and I do believe it could happen, because I can completely relate to Agnes (and a lot of people to Elin).

But I don't believe in Ett hål i mitt hjärta! I don't believe it could happen and I cannot relate to any character in this film. For me, this is purely (bad) ART, not a story, not a movie. Mottled, blotched paint, that I don't understand why was created.

I don't believe Elin could turn into Tess and Agnes into Eric at any circumstances! That's something I can not believe, because I love Fucking Åmål and I love Agnes and Elin!
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Postby kant1781 » Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:49 pm

droopy wrote:I don't believe Elin could turn into Tess and Agnes into Eric at any circumstances! That's something I can not believe, because I love Fucking Åmål and I love Agnes and Elin!


I know you do! And I do too! (And I'm hopeful that you know that. After all, you've read my stuff.)

But there is a difference between loving and trying to understand. I don't love Tess or Eric oder "Ett hål i mitt hjärta", I wouldn't even wish to watch it again, it's unpleasant. But I'm trying to understand. A little less emotion, a little more rational thinking about possibilities is all I ask for.

There's also a difference between saying that you don't like an idea and saying that it is wrong. You may hate an idea as much as you can, and it could still be true.
You have expressed that you don't like my idea very clearly, and I can understand this feeling very well, honestly! I tell you something: I also don't like the idea of comparing Agnes, Elin, Eric and Tess!
But I try to open up to the possibility that, even though I don't like it to be true and even if it hurts me to say so, it could still be true. It doesn't help to answer: "There is no possible connection between the two films because I don't want that there is any such connection!" Unfortunately, the world doesn't work that way.
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Postby 12raHraH » Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:10 am

I've been meaning to see this but to no avail. I can't find it online!
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Postby bruno » Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:56 am

I'm not to make comparisons between the various Moodysson films I've seen; and it's very difficult to judge an experimental movie like this. One could say it's all crap, or criticize some scenes that didn't turn out so well. But I watched it with a positive attitude and all in all I found it quite interesting, even if hard to watch in some scenes.
Some things were very disgusting (but they have their right place in the film), there's not a story, the director sometimes seems to refrain from directing (you can see in the DVD extras: actor wanting instructions and M. refusing them, telling to act "freely"). Not a linear, clean cut thing. A Hole in my heart is a lot of suggestions and images rather than a storyline.

Characters in the film are victims, offended in spirit or in body; they make a lot of stupid or disgusting things (Erik remaining a little above the others, in his loneliness). And yes, they have some void they can't fill (a hole in their hearts). Still they are not really evil and they care for each other somehow; even if they (spoiler...) vomit in each other' mouth it doesn't feel like the nastiest thing you've seen. Maybe Kolya was right saying (quite a lot of time ago!) "What Moodysson presents is just the typical explanation of his generation."
But this film is not a straitforward preach and you can find there many occasions to think about the hole in your own heart and draw your own conclusions, so I think this could be (in a strange way) a real good movie.
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Postby Kolya » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:41 am

Kant1781, you certainly have a point there about Agnes and Elin being somewhat cutified outsiders. But that's how stories work: You draw the good ones white and the bad ones black. Moodysson fortunately avoided overdoing that in FA. (God, I just had to look up how his name is written, it's been some time.) And even in "A hole in my heart" I could still understand the characters to some degree, but there was no counterpoint anymore. I'm not talking about some artsy theme he may have done variations on. I'm talking about how to make movies that people actually want to see.
And that's where we get to the point: Did Moodysson actually expect people to like this movie or Container? I guess not. Why did he make them then? For art? To prove a point? I really don't know. All I do know is that he didn't make these movies for the people who liked FA. And the resounding failure of these movies, with critics and the public, shows that he succeeded in this regard. If there really was such a thing as a red line going from FA through A hole in my heart to Container, I'm sure more people would have been able to see and appreciate it. Tillsammans for me was the only movie that managed to produce some of the same feelings and say some things about humanity by the way, like FA did.

I have yet to see Mammoth, but I'm not exactly looking forward to it to be honest.
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Postby Ian » Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:49 am

To be honest, I haven't seen any of Moodyson's other movies. You'd think I'd want to, but none of the stories seem to hold much in the way of appeal and it seems he's on a very strange path of making things that I'm not much interested in seeing. Which is both rather odd and somewhat unfortunate given how close I hold FA to my heart. But them's the breaks, I guess...
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Postby bruno » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:01 am

This is true. I've seen a couple of Moodysson movies other than FA, I could appreciate A Hole in my Heart, can't say the same about Lilya forever but it's not horrible, either, but sure they are not made for the people who liked FÅ. Even if you could find some relationships between characters and themes (and probably you could).

But was it possible to Moodysson to make another film like FÅ? Is it possible now? Could he work the same magic another time? Probably not.
So I think he moved to completely different things.

I'm waiting to see Mammoth with some hope.
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Postby Kolya » Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:23 pm

That's where I differ. I think he could make a movie just as good, if he just stopped taking himself and his "mission" to better the world so goddamn seriously. Which is annoying to say the least.

He certainly has a good hand at picking unknown actors. A lot of FA's success was about how realistically Rebecca, Alexandra and the others played it out. And if it hadn't been for Roxana (?) then Lilja4ever would have tanked completely.
Moodysson probably intended FA to be a movie about prejudice against anyone who's different, in essence a moralistic movie just like his later ones. But the reason this worked out was because the story wasn't completely sick, but something everyone could relate to, and then the actors lifted this piece way up high.

Give Moodysson a script-idea that excludes all topics like: war, human trafficking, drug abuse, porn, diseases, and instead is about the normal shit we all have to face every day. He'll make another masterpiece of it, I'm sure.
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Postby bruno » Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:23 pm

Kolya wrote:That's where I differ. I think he could make a movie just as good, if he just stopped taking himself and his "mission" to better the world so goddamn seriously. Which is annoying to say the least.


I'm not so sure about that. Moral issues are present in all of Moodysson production but not everywhere in the same way. I've just seen three of his films but the "moral eye" of the director acts in a different way for each of them.

For sure Moodysson intended FÅ as a movie against prejudice but it's a movie about love and feelings also, about standing up to your rights and your identity.
And it was simple, precise and objective, with a strong storyline in mind (wich lacks in L4E and EHIMH), without sticking a moralistic intent everywhere: by the way, in FÅ we see a disabled person (Viktoria) who doesn't make a good show of herself and there's no pity or commiseration for her.

A Hole in my Heart has a moral intent but the characters with all their faults are seen in a very humane perspective, sure not with a priestly contempt. I could not despise or hate them. Obviously it's too much an experimental film, but it's tought provoking.

The only Moodysson movie I've seen where moralism is excessive and (to me) annoying is L4E. Nevertheless it could have been a good movie if Moodysson had developed the story somehow.

I have to see Mammoth and the other movies yet, but I feel that a clear intent and a good storyline is what Moodysson needs, moralistic or not he may be as a man.
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Postby fish » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:41 am

Just an opinion, but it is my opinion so I'll inflict it on you. I have bought the DVD's for all the following films (except "Hjärta") because I like to support the industry whenever I can.

I have'nt seen A Hole In My Heart, it may be a "great" film but from what I have heard it has nothing which would appeal to me. Therefore I'll probably pass on it. What I (and many others I suspect) need are characters with whom I can sympathise or at least empathise, someone likeable. It seems that in "Hjärta" I will not find them.

Similarly in Container I found no one that appealed.

Together is touted as one of Moodysson's best but again, save for the daughter, there was no-one I found likeable at all.

Lilya 4-ever was a brilliant but tough film. Enjoyable is not the right word to describe such a grim story but the characters of Lilya and Volodya made it a very good film. (about a 9.5 on the Richter scale of sad films)

FA is FA. I may well have seen a better film but I can't remember when.

Back to "Hjärta". Part of the Moodysson campaign for a better world or not It seems to need a spark, a connection with a couple of characters, that feeling of affection, and sadly that appears to be missing. The object of a film after all, should be to entertain.

I'll still buy Mannoth when it's released.
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Postby Agnes&Elin Forever! » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:22 am

Well Moodysson can never make another FÅ, for many reasons

It was his first movie, it was a low-budget production, it had a unique cast, it had the music of Broder Daniel, it became a phenomenon, it was magic

So why wish for another movie along the same lines when it would just pale in comparison?
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Postby Kolya » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:43 am

Maybe you're right, maybe he cannot make a movie as good again.
But why shouldn't we wish and look for other movies along the same lines? Of course we're all here because we like FA the best, but as has been said before, it's been ten years! Got to keep the wheel rollin' you know?
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Re: What does everybody think?

Postby bruno » Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:03 pm

After the forum merger and simplification (sp?) it's no more clear we're talking aboout A Hole in my Heart in this thread.
Maybe it should be renamed by moderators? for example: What does everybody think? [Ett hål i mitt hjärta]

Possibily other threads here around have a similar problem ?
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Re: What does everybody think?

Postby snaps » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:55 am

bruno wrote:Possibily other threads here around have a similar problem ?


Ooooh touchy touchy! Personally, I am am not a great fan of the film in question. There again I know that careers inside media/film making are not necessarily linear.

Orson Welles started out making one of cinema's greatest movies ''Citizen Kane'' and ended up doing adverts for cigars and sherry. Lukas is sufficiently youthful to make a film to shake the world yet. Maybe deep down, where he is now, he resents FA. Most writers deep down grow to loathe their greatest creations. Agatha Christie couldn't wait to kill off Poirot. Conan Doyle loathed the success of Sherlock Holmes, killed him off and was forced by public demand to bring him back to life. some try to escape through writing under pseudonyms, the crime writer John Creasey used over 120 to try to get away from his most popular creation of ''Gideon of The Yard''. The most prolific published author in the English language (not Shakespeare) but the Rev. Frank Richard had six and a half million words of novels and short stories published. OK pre-TV etc but he is only ever remembered (if ever) for his comic creation of Billy Bunter a fat schoolboy ingenue.

It's just part of the creative cycle. Popular taste does not equate to artistic achievement. Unlike the world of sport, your last performance is not always your greatest.

At best Shakespeare is know for his two greatest length tragedies of Lear and Hamlet. Very little regard is given these days to his prophetic last play the Tempest which anticipated many themes explored three hundred years later in psychoanalysis and which gave rise to the sci-fi classic ''The Forbidden Planet''.

The awesome question remains. Have faith, the guy who could break the mold and produce FA could yet beguile us all. :)
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Re: What does everybody think?

Postby Ian » Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:41 am

bruno wrote:After the forum merger and simplification (sp?) it's no more clear we're talking aboout A Hole in my Heart in this thread.
Maybe it should be renamed by moderators? for example: What does everybody think? [Ett hål i mitt hjärta]




Done and done. :D :wink:
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