Viktoria?

Discuss Lukas Moodysson's first feature film Fucking Åmål (Show me Love).

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Viktoria?

Postby Agnes&Elin Forever! » Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:11 pm

How do you actually feel about the incidents involving Viktoria in FÅ?

They discussed it a little some years ago on this board I think, before we were active here

Even though Viktoria acted pretty stupid when Agnes tried to apologize, I still kind of feel sorry for her... and you can't really blame her too much I guess

The film is in fact a bit controversial even regarding this, Viktoria in a wheelchair and Agnes being quite nasty to her, and then Viktoria being a real jerk as well.... :shock:

I mean you'd think this was not the stuff that would make the film so popular, but apparently most people didn't care.... or they just took it for what it was, something realistic and not sweetened *:|*

Comments?

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Re: Viktoria?

Postby fish » Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:39 pm

In my view.
Agnes was totally out of order. Victoria was just a victim of Agnes' frustrations with her own life.
The way Victoria reacted was perfectly understandable too, after the way she was treated.
Kids fall into and out of friendships in the same way people fall into and out of love. Sometimes amicably but usually with a lot of ill feeling and nastiness.
The end of their friendship was very cruel, but not unusual.

However.
The end of their friendship and the bad treatment that followed was absolutely vital to the story as there was no one else close enough to Agnes to realise she loved Elin, and who would be credible in telling Elin that Agnes loved her. Without Elin being directly told that Agnes loved her I don't think the rest of the story would make nearly as much sense.

I think Moodysson had no choice but to write the story that way.

So yes, I do feel sorry for Viktoria in the way she was treated but I'm very glad the story went down the path that it did.
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby bruno » Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:23 pm

fish wrote:However.
The end of their friendship and the bad treatment that followed was absolutely vital to the story as there was no one else close enough to Agnes to realise she loved Elin, and who would be credible in telling Elin that Agnes loved her. Without Elin being directly told that Agnes loved her I don't think the rest of the story would make nearly as much sense.

I think Moodysson had no choice but to write the story that way.


Mmmmmmhh... Well I think Elin should have known Agnes' feelings. It was her that decided not to answer the telephone, ignoring Agnes at school (and taking a slap for this), and so on. Just my opinion, but I viewed Viktoria words as a confirmation of the obvious.

Anyway: Agnes said very bad words, but they had a spark of truth in them (a classical truth better not told). Agnes tried to apologize, Viktoria decided not to accept. This is it. I don't think it's a bad spot of the movie, or, like I read in some reviews, FÅ to be "against" handicapped persons. People on a wheelcahir can become mean just like anybody else. And when Agnes tried to apologize the most obvious reaction I think is not to accept the charity of a renewed friendship already gone stale. Interaction between Viktoria and Agnes is a fresh bit of realism, I liked it.
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby Ian » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:16 am

I always got the impression that they were never friends to begin with. Doesn't Agnes say at one point that she's been there 2 years and still has no friends? She didn't want Viktoria at her party even before she spectacularly lost it. I suspect the truth is they sat together because no one else wanted to sit with them, but that hardly makes them friends. Agnes did the wrong thing taking it out on her, but I don't think there was much in the way of friendship between them to start with.
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby Agnes&Elin Forever! » Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:16 pm

Yes of course they weren't real friends to Agnes, which is exactly what she told Viktoria at her birthday party

But it was pretty cruel of Agnes to spit out her frustrations at Viktoria, since she probably thought they were friends and seemed happy to get the invitation card

But like we've said it was realistic, and kudos to Moodysson for including it in the film

They don't even reconcile at the end of the film, which would probably have been standard in many other films, the last shot of Viktoria is shortly before the 'coming out scene' and then she's gone

When you think about it, it sort of leaves a slightly bitter taste when the end scene is supposed to be all happy with Agnes and Elin drinking chocolade milk together *:|*
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby Ian » Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:56 am

To be honest, not really. Agnes tries to apologise and make up. Viktoria not only rejects her apology, she then later goes out of her way to hurt her. Agnes' behaviour was not deliberate, it was sheer out-of-control frustration which she regretted. Viktoria's subsequent behaviour is composed of pure spite. My sympathy is fairly limited. :wink:
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby triddy » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:01 pm

I did feel sorry for Viktoria when Agnes went off at her, but since she spent the rest of the movie treating Agnes badly so that she could get more popular herself, my tears dried :roll:

Personally, I think Viktoria is one of the funniest characters in the film, I love how she rejects Agnes's apology saying "I've never liked you, and it will be nice to get rid of you". She sounds so precocious and with a funny accent. And then turning away carelessly, to continue her work on her tan, with those ridiculous glasses :lol: You can't help loving her, even though you hate her, just like you love and hate all of the characters in this film.
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby fish » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:49 am

I think I read somewhere that the apology scene was supposed to end with Viktoria looking at a computer screen, but during a couple of weeks off Josefin Nyberg went to North Africa on holiday with her parents and came back to Sweden with a tan, so in order to accommodate the change in skin colour the scene was re-written in the way we see it.

Anyone else remember reading this?
Or am I a little :T


Oh, and welcome back Triddy. How was your break?
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby Ian » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:54 am

It's a new one on me, but tht don't mean it ain't so, fishy! :wink:

Welcome back to triddy for me also. :D
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby bruno » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:58 am

fish wrote: but during a couple of weeks off Josefin Nyberg went to North Africa on holiday with her parents and came back to Sweden with a tan, so in order to accommodate the change in skin colour the scene was re-written in the way we see it.

Anyone else remember reading this?


I read the same somewhere, yes.
As for her behaviour against Agnes, I think is justified. Viktoria is a character not so likable, but I feel sorry for her.
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby triddy » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:00 pm

Thanks! I've had a great break. It feels good to be back among fellow maniacs, though :P

Yeah, it was in the director's comments on the DVD about her tan issue :).
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby fish » Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:17 am

triddy wrote:... it was in the director's comments on the DVD about her tan issue :).

There were director's comments on the DVD? :shock:
I have two "bought ones" and neither have any extras at all. :(
But then again I probably wouldn't have understood what he was saying anyway. :roll:
So why am I bothering to say anything?
I think I must need to have my morning nap about now. :W :lol:

Welcome back to Maniactown. :T :lol:
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby kant1781 » Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:47 am

fish wrote:There were director's comments on the DVD? :shock:
I have two "bought ones" and neither have any extras at all. :(


The director's comments are only on the Swedish DVD release, but they were subtitled, and, as is the rule in Maniactown :T , some person found the time to rip the subtitles, and some other person (namely, OEB :wink: ) took the time to translate them into English. They are available as a text file, so one can at least read them. I should put the file up on my site as soon as I find the time. If anyone's interested, PM me, I can send you the file. It's really interesting, LM talks a lot about how certain scenes were made!
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby kant1781 » Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:57 am

fish wrote:The end of their friendship and the bad treatment that followed was absolutely vital to the story as there was no one else close enough to Agnes to realise she loved Elin, and who would be credible in telling Elin that Agnes loved her. Without Elin being directly told that Agnes loved her I don't think the rest of the story would make nearly as much sense.


Totally correct I think! Victoria's breach of faith is necessary for Elin's realisation that Agnes loves her and for the story to unfold. Sure, Elin could have guessed that from the way Agnes behaves, but she doesn't want to know and she's trying her best not to. It's only Viktoria's outspokenness that forces her to accept the truth. Which is ironic, because in the end Viktoria's treason turns out to be instrumental for bringing about exactly what she wanted to destroy. Sometimes, good intentions engender bad consequences, and sometime's it's the other way round.

It's a bit like Judas's role in the New Testament, you know? It has been pointed out that his treason is necessary for salvation to proceed... Without him, no crucifiction... no crucifiction, no resurrection :wink: I hope I am not hurting anyone's religious feelings around here O-) .
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby Ian » Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:22 am

LOL! I'm not sure how much danger of that there is round these parts. :wink:
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