Viktoria?

Discuss Lukas Moodysson's first feature film Fucking Åmål (Show me Love).

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Re: Viktoria?

Postby fish » Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:33 am

Viktoria Iscariot? :shock:
I wonder what she was paid for acting in FÅ. :P

kant1781 wrote:I hope I am not hurting anyone's religious feelings around here O-) .

I'd say there was no risk at all around here. :lol:
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby kant1781 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:48 am

fish wrote:Viktoria Iscariot? :shock:
I wonder what she was paid for acting in FÅ. :P


Oh, not what you think. I believe she wanted 100 Kronor but then settled for 20. :T
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby Agnes&Elin Forever! » Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:59 am

Hey Dave, welcome back

If you're referring to Jessica, she settled for 20 spänn which is slang for 'kronor'

And you have no sympathy for Viktoria? :shock:
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby Agnes&Elin Forever! » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:25 am

Re the director's comments translated to english, they were uploaded somewhere on the net but I can't remember where :roll:
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby kant1781 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:44 am

Agnes&Elin Forever! wrote:Re the director's comments translated to english, they were uploaded somewhere on the net but I can't remember where :roll:


This occurred to me too last night, and I found them. They used to be part of the content of Syd's old fucking-amal.com portal which is gone, but our mate droopy still hosts a mirror site (two cheers!).

This is the link to Lukas Moodysson's director's comments on the Swedish DVD release (Swedish and English):
http://fucking-amal.droopy.sk/subpages/text/dircom/dircom.htm
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby kant1781 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:54 am

Agnes&Elin Forever! wrote:If you're referring to Jessica, she settled for 20 spänn which is slang for 'kronor'
And you have no sympathy for Viktoria? :shock:


Hi Magnus! I have lots of sympathy for Viktoria and I am very glad indeed that she doesn't end like Iscariot. I think it is fundamental to see that she's not evil, she's just as lonely and wanting to be loved as everybody else is - Agnes, Elin, Jessica, Johan - and she hopes to have found a friend in Agnes. And once she feels betrayed and frightened, she performs a terribly cruel act (like they ALL do at some point for the very same reason, except maybe for Johan), so I really don't see any kind of moral inferiority on Viktoria's part. It's just not her movie, so it can be forgiven for not doing her justice.
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby fish » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:14 am

kant1781 wrote:...It's just not her movie, so it can be forgiven for not doing her justice.

I agree completely. There would be no point in writing a happy ending for Victoria, or any kind of ending at all for that matter, as this is a film for Elin and Agnes and nothing else is needed.

To wander off into other endings for any or all of the other characters would, in my opinion, risk spoiling a near perfect film.

None of us would have wanted that, eh?
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby kant1781 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:04 pm

fish wrote:To wander off into other endings for any or all of the other characters would, in my opinion, risk spoiling a near perfect film.


Absolutely. That's of course what would have happened in a Hollywood Remake or Hollywood execution of the same script. You know which type of film I am thinking about, the kind where there are 5 male and 5 female characters and you know from the start that in the end everyone will be with someone from the other side (if there's a sixth character to either side this means that s/he is going to die tragically). There's only the slightest hint towards the pairing of Johan and Jessica in Fucking Åmål, but hell, what a waste of opportunities! Think about Camilla & the Hockey Coach, the Saab Driver & Elin's Mom, Markus & Bengtsson, ... :lol:
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby snaps » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:21 pm

Viktoria drives me mad

Viktoria drives me mad. She is as dumb as a train. Sometimes she is like all the worst bits of Amal all glued up in the same person. I try sometimes but she just talks over me with her idiot stuff.

When she talks about boys is worst. She says ‘So do you think Erik really likes me. I mean really likes me or REALLY really likes me’ . I lie to her and say ‘I’m sure he really really really likes you’, then she’ll say ‘but do you think he REALLY really really likes me?’ For crying out loud, I just want to scream ‘NO! He doesn’t like you, he is just REALLY is THAT desperate, see?’ The worst is she won’t get the messsage she’ll then say ‘So Agnes, which boys do YOU really really like?’ I give up.

The worst thing is my big liberal Mamma who always tells everyone very loudly that Viktoria is my best friend. It embarrasses me, like Momma is really trying to make out how she well she has ‘brought me up’ to be a goody-goody like her. Huh. If she only she knew what her daughter was really like!

I wouldn’t mind Viktoria being so dumb if she wasn’t so miserable. I’m depressed before I even see her. One day I will put her out of her misery and push her on her wheelchair down the slope into the path of a train. I’ll then pretend to try and rescue her. Everyone will say it was sad (such hypocrites they’ll be glad she’s gone!) and how brave I was, and then everyone will like me. I’ll kill two birds with one stone.

The truth is I don’t hate Viktoria. But I don’t pity her either. I DON’T feel sorry for her. Why should I? NO-ONE feels sorry for ME! The fact is that I ENVY her!!!

If I was like her, in a wheelchair then at least everyone would give me a chance. I would be the opposite of her.

I would be rude to teachers and they wouldn’t DARE tell me off. I would be a rebel WITH a cause.

I would learn to tell jokes, LOTS of them, really well. They needn’t be good jokes, but I would do a wheelie in my wheelchair, spin round on one tyre as I deliver the punchline, BOOM BOOM! And everyone would like the fact that I made an effort. I would grow in confidence and tell even better jokes.

People at school would queue up to push me around the place. I would be so popular.

Best of all Elin would fight to be head of the queue. She would want to know my secret.

I would turn us into a double act. I would be the one that is supposed to be the dumbie but I would be the one with the smart wise-crack lines, and Elin would be the soft, silly clown-like one always in trouble. That is the secret joke. Elin is supposed to be MY carer, but it is ME who has to look out for her.

We would be famous. We WOULD get out of Amal, appear on STV then go global.

I can see it now.

The ELIN and AGNES Show, no even better, The AGNES and ELIN show.

WE would stay in the BEST hotels.

After the show ELIN would help me shower and put me to bed.

She would say ‘Agnes, I owe it ALL to YOU’ as she dries my hair.

I would say ‘No babe. Without YOU none of this would have happened!’

Elin would make her way to her own bed, turn round and then squidge up beside me.

WE would be Sooooooooo HAPPY!!!

Elin would say ‘We must do a memorial concert for Viktoria sometime’

I would say ‘Viktoria who?’
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby Ian » Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:32 am

I've read that before, snaps. :wink:


Needless to say, I agree with Dave and fish on the other. :D
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby fish » Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:45 am

kant1781 wrote:...Markus & Bengtsson

:shock: They deserve each other. :lol:

codyw1 wrote:I've read that before, snaps. :wink:

Before? :shock:
Why wasn't I told this was here before? :x
Love it. Would make a great movie. *:)*
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby Agnes&Elin Forever! » Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:08 pm

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Re: Viktoria?

Postby Robert Lamm » Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:59 am

Watching the film again I drew more attention to the character Viktoria. For me she is more than just an unnecessary secondary character. It is remarkable that Viktoria is the only person who expresses the words “Agnes is in love with you (Elin)”. You see them only written on the screen of the computer and Elin refers to Viktoria’s statement in the school toilet. But the words “I love you” are never expressed neither by Agnes nor Elin. Maybe another point in which FA differs from many other films in which such strong words seem to be nothing more than unimportant phrases.
Presumably without Viktoria their “coming out of the school toilet” would never take place. At least she is the person who accelerates the plot.

Feeling with her?
A moment that reveals much about her is at the end of the locker-poster scene.
It’s the lowest Viktoria could sink when she talks about a pretended situation in which Agnes grabbed her. She is seeking for attention by mentioning such things. But it doesn’t work out. The boys refer to her as a “bloody headcase” and so she is rejected again. Her other intention is that she wants to take revenge on Agnes. Although their friendship seemed to be mainly propelled by their loneliness Agnes was the only person Viktoria could trust. Her harsh words at the birthday-party and the unpersuasive apology afterwards really hurt her feelings and were finally the catalyst for her action. I don’t think that you can really blame Viktoria for her behaviour. Both Agnes and Viktoria have to cope with the aftermaths of being emotionally hurt. But they choose a different emotional outlet to find a way out of their situation. Agnes attempts to kill herself with safety razors after Elin kissed her in her room, whereas Viktoria tries to bash Agnes. I’m sure these are situations you really have to be into to be able to dare an evaluation.
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby ArcticMonkeys » Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:54 am

You do feel for her at that party scene, it's Agnes most bitchy moment in the whole film along with the half arsed apology to Viktoria. Even if she didn't like her she shouldn't have gone that far. I think anyone would have felt for Viktoria at that moment in the film.

But the honest truth is they were friends on the basis of not been wanted by any group in the School. I think in the Case of Agnes, I think Viktoria was probably the girl who showed her around school on Agnes first day and clung on from that day forward :D. Any scenes between Agnes and Viktoria you can see Agnes disinterest in her even her lacklustre apology shows that she really couldn't care, they nothing in common but just been the outcasts. Agnes would have been happy to be alone by herself.

I feel for Viktoria, her only friend (I honestly do think she cared for Agnes) basically disowns her and even when she comes back to apology later on it's lacklustre and not really meant cause she was made to do it even Viktoria gets it. She's is basically alone, feels betrayed and wants to hurt Agnes like she hurt her but their is a bit of wanting the cool kids to invite her into the gang about her telling Elin that Agnes loves her and wanting to destroy Agnes. Some see Viktoria as a Villain, what she does isn't right but most of us in her place would have probably done the same. I feel huge sympathy for her in one way but I do feel half of the reason she did it was for personal gain. If the film delved a little deeper into her character she would have been a very interesting character, but alas it really isn't about her she's a plot point really.
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Re: Viktoria?

Postby fish » Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:02 am

ArcticMonkeys wrote:...she's a plot point really.

Yeah.
Sadly for Viktoria she has to have a reason to turn against Agnes so Elin can find out that it's her that Agnes loves. Not just any girl.
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