what I didn't (or did) like about the movie

Discuss Lukas Moodysson's first feature film Fucking Åmål (Show me Love).

Moderator: Ian

Postby Jen02 » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:23 pm

2/18/02 5:15:53 am

what I didn't (or did) like about the movie While the movie was excellent in general, there were a couple of things that I didn't like about it:

1) the way they handled the handicapped character. They portrayed a mean attitude towards disabled people. I just wish that they had handled that character in a nicer way.

2) now I'm talking about a directing mistake. After Agnes cut her wrist, she should have had a small scar on her left wrist, but I didn't see it in the scene toward the end of the movie, when Agnes was lying on her bed, showing her left wrist without any scar!

what do you think?

Edited by: Show me Love at: 2/21/02 9:22:00 pm
Jen02
 

Postby Mind Flash 1984 » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:24 pm

2/18/02 8:01:00 am

what I didn't like about the movie I doubt that those kids would ever have seen a disabled person. However, Viktoria's actions towards the end are mainly because of Agnes (and the fact that those boys are dumb).

And the directing mistake: Well, there are a LOT more than that, surely. *thinks of the pebble breaking Agnes' window*

?erac I ekiL .drah oot yaw si ti taht si sdrawkcab gnitirw tuoba wonk I llA
Mind Flash 1984
 

Postby LaraCroatia 2001 » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:25 pm

2/18/02 8:20:04 pm

I didn't noticed any mistakes but it bodered me the way Agnes treated Victoria in that scene although I can understand why Lukas decided to put it that way, it's just that that's not so rare thing unforunately.
LaraCroatia 2001
 

Postby PunkRockGirl80 » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:26 pm

2/18/02 11:58:41 pm)

This is funny Jen, I was about to write a new topic about this today but on the other end of the opinion.

I thought it was risky but amazing how they played up the Victoria character.

First off showing Agnes is not a "perfect" person. Even though she's the main character Agnes does have major flaws like all of us, that showed in her dissing Victoria.. But still seeing how the director showed Agnes is not perfect but still a sympathetic character was pretty amazing.

Then one of the biggest surprises was that Victoria became really bitter and kind of a jerk afterwards. Not only not accepting Agnes' apoligy but spreading word around about her being a lesbian. Again risky, usually movies portray anyone with a handicap as extremely nice and open-minded and kind.. But the Victoria character was mean and willing to tell her friends deep secret out to make herself feel better,(like Agnes did in the party). and pile on with everyone else when Agnes was at her lowest.

I know where Jenn is coming from, but I saw this great movie as extremely risky and not the normal way we see character. Victoria is an very complex character that turns out to be not what you expect.

ImageImageImage
Last edited by PunkRockGirl80 on Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
PunkRockGirl80
 

Postby jen02 » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:28 pm

2/19/02 5:39:24 am

what I didn't like about the movie I agree with Agnes not being perfect, and that is understandable because all the characters were in their teens and supposed to act silly sometimes (the best example was Elin, when she was upset with Jessica because the latter took the last chocolate milk :D ), but it still bothers me to see Victoria turn sour... well, I don't know, but I didn't like the way they portrayed the Victoria character, even if she hadn't been disabled, it was still mean...

About the directing mistakes, yep! there were other small mistakes if you watch the movie carefully, - I saw at least 2 of them - but the one mistake I mentioned bothers me the most (man, am I picky :) ). I'm not sure about the broken window mistake though, maybe Elin got a strong hand? :D or the glass was too thin?
jen02
 

Postby b » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:29 pm

2/19/02 6:45:50 am

the wheelchair

that scene was one of my fav., what difference did it make if the girl was in a wheelchair. who cares about her she was a bitch anyway
b
 

Postby clasping masp » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:30 pm

2/19/02 3:29:27 pm

i liked that scene It's the scenes like that, that made FA great. :)
Without being realistic the film wouldn't have worked at all. i have seen many other coming out films that make it all very happy and everything's good - that is: perfect people surpressed by the system of heterosexuality or something..

I think Victoria was trying to become popular amongst the other girls by telling them that Agnes was a lesbian etc.. of course it didn't work, just like in real life!
clasping masp
 

Postby thadfilms » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:30 pm

2/19/02 10:03:34 pm

First time contributor.

Just rented the film here in the states... watched it three times over the weekend. (I had seen Together in the theaters... also I am a big fan of anything Lars von Triers company, Zentropa, has anything to do with... lastly my friends in Zentropa had been telling me to see it for years.) The only thing I didn't like... the use of Robyn over the end credits. I think it's meant as a joke because earlier Victoria says "I know Robyn is silly", so therefore I find it humorous. But the first time I saw it, I was really getting into the Broder Daniel songs and I just thought one of those would be so perfect to finish off the film. And then this terrible pop song plays.

I should backtrack and say the film is amazing.
thadfilms
 

Postby Show me Love » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:31 pm

2/20/02 9:29:28 pm

Hi Thadfilms,

Welcome to the board and thanks for posting.
I'm glad you like the film as much as we do. It's kind of funny what you say about the ending, or better known as the 'O-boy scene'.
In fact it has been argued by people I know that the film would have had a better ending if this scene would not have made it through the final cut.
If so, Show me Love would have ended where Elin and Agnes walk out of the school with the Broder Daniel music in the background, like you say.

Eventhough I do like the Broder Daniel songs a lot and like you, I do think one of their songs would have been nice at the end of the film, I think that Robyn's song fits the final scene perfect!
It's probably also meant as a (little) joke, like you say, but the O'boy scene is not only a joke. Personallyl I think this scene is an important one.
Show me Love does in fact deal with something that most people would never think teenagers 'round the age of 14 would know or bother about.
Show me Love handles this subject in a very playfull but at the same time serious and realistic way.
Now, when eventually Elin and Agnes found eachother this scene is (maybe) needed to show that dispite to all this the are still two teenage girls doing teenage girl-stuff.
Robyn - Show me Love, is a very good song to go with this scene when you look at it from this point of view... Don't you think?



Thomas
Webmaster www.showmelove.tv
Show me Love
 

Postby thadfilms » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:32 pm

2/20/02 11:10:53 pm

Thomas-

I loved that final scene... and I think the film needs it. Because we're not meant to think that they will stay together forever, but it's perfect to see them being together. And the chocolate milk dialogue is genius.

It's not that I don't like the use of Robyn anymore- I'd still rather have another song playing during the credits... but the first time it really took me out of the film. Now I just find it funny- and it does go with teenage girls in some ways.

But I also equate with the Foriegner song, which is a really terrible song. But it made the scene both funny and melodramatic which also added to the scenes true impact. He's both making fun of that type of scene and pulling it off in an extraordinary way.

Two things which really don't have much to do with the actual film- The original title is twenty five thousand times better then the american title. Thinking about the titles gives the movie two different "feels"- and I think that Fucking Amal gives the film a much better feel.

There's only one other thing I don't like- The US version (DVD), you can't remove the subtitles. Having lived in Denmark when I was younger (though I am the states) my swedish isn't that bad... as far as comprehension. Well that's nitpicking and has nothing to do with the film. But I do enjoy being able to watch myd DVD's of films like My Life as a Dog and (the Danish film) Mifune without subtitles.

But- Thomas- I'm really glad you've set up this site (pa engelsk), it gives all filmmakers hope. As in Show Me Love is not the most known film in the U.S... but at least those who surf the internet can find out more about it. And from an independent source.

-Thaddeus
thadfilms
 

Postby MaGiC GLiTTeR » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:32 pm

2/21/02 2:32:43 pm

what I didn't like about the movie Okay, first of all.. You need to lighten up about Viktoria. She turned out to be just as harsh as the popular kids. Her character wasn't "handled" any sort of way, nor did they try to portray her as a bad person. Why must ONE character in ONE movie represent an ENTIRE community of people?
Agnes went off on Viktoria because she was upset about her party and the fact that she has no friends. She felt like laying the truth upon Viktoria. ("The only reason we're together is because we have no one else to be with.") Yes, she said some mean stuff that was uncalled for, but in anger. And she OBVIOUSLY regretted it, seeing as she apologized later. Viktoria proved to be unforgiving and cruel. Yes, it's hard to believe. There are mean handicapped people out there. You wish Viktoria would've fit some holier-than-thou, sweet girl cliché? I think everything her character said and did was new, inventive and GREAT.
MaGiC GLiTTeR
 

Postby Show me Love » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:33 pm

2/21/02 9:21:31 pm

Amen!

hehe,.. Yes, MG, I guess you're right about Victoria.
I kind of like the fact that Lukas didn't portray her character as a 'holy-person'. Apart from being unable to walk she's just like other kinds and maybe even more like Agnes. They both don't have anyone. Victoria because she's in a wheelchair and Agnes because she like girls and is therefor different.
Victoria played this role perfectly by the way! One of my fav scenes is the one with Victoria on Agnes' birthday party.

Thomas
Webmaster www.showmelove.tv
Show me Love
 

Postby absoluted » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:34 pm

2/21/02 10:17:20 pm)

what I didn't like about the movie What a great thread. OK…I’m going to try to chime in without getting in too much trouble…

Yes, I have to mention the Viktoria character also. I’ve noticed in reviews and other conversations that this seems to be the most debated aspect of the movie.

I’m actually not crazy about how she was handled myself. Don’t get me wrong. I like the fact that Moodyson portrayed her character as mean. In fact, almost all the teen characters in the movie are very cruel at one point or another, which I think was very smart. And considering the way Agnes treated her (a brutal but excellent scene), Viktoria’s subsequent actions could certainly seem “justified”.

The thing is, I think Lukas “overdid” it a bit with Viktoria. I think he didn’t want people to think he was making her too sympathetic because she was in a wheelchair, so he made her cruel most of the time without giving enough glimpses into her inner pain.

But if it was a choice being portraying her as either sympathetic or mean, I think he made the right choice.

The ‘O-boy scene’ my favorite ending that I’ve seen in any movie. It was brilliant. We see Agnes and Elin walking away victoriously hand-in-hand, presumably to “fuck”. Then in the next scene, we see them hanging out together, laughing casually and talking about chocolate milk. I think Moodyson’s point was that the greatest moments of love aren’t in the great dramatic events -- the likes of which are so common in movies -- but rather in the mundane, everyday moments. (But that’s just how I personally see it. I think Thomas’ interpretation of it is probably closer to the director’s intentions than mine.)

And, if you think about it, Lukas often employs this ‘anti-climatic’ technique throughout the movie. Such as when Elin and Anges are passionately kissing, then suddenly interrupted by the man opening the door. Or when Elin attempts to reunite with Agnes and accidentally breaks the window. I think he did this because much of the point of the movie was to defy conventional expectations.

I thought it was great hearing Robyn in the last scene. A happy song for a happy ending. (But, as I stated in another thread, I am a Robyn fan.)

The Broder Daniel songs were great. I’m definitely going to get more of their music in the future.

I agree with Thad about the kiss. Lukas seemed to be “tweaking” that kind of traditional scene and yet making it work at the same time. The kiss easily could have come across as cheesy, but it worked perfectly because Lukas cared so much about the characters.

And as far as directing mistakes, don’t forget one of the biggest ones. When the doorbell rang and Anges’ mother went to answer it, Viktoria was at the bottom of the stairs. How did Viktoria reach the bell??!??
absoluted
 

Postby Show me Love » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:34 pm

2/22/02 12:23:06 am

I think Moodyson’s point was that the greatest moments of love aren’t in the great dramatic events -- the likes of which are so common in movies -- but rather in the mundane, everyday moments. (But that’s just how I personally see it. I think Thomas’ interpretation of it is probably closer to the director’s intentions than mine.)


Absoluted; I think it was both of these reasons that made Lukas shoot this scene. In fact this is also what I meant... The anticlimax you talk about is important also. The O'boy scene shows that no matter what a happy ending this film has, these are still very normal girls.

About the doorbell; I think that Olof (Agnes' father) was so kind as to install a second doorbell at the bottom of the stairs to enable Viktoria to ring the bell when she comes to visit Agnes. Viktoria has probably been Agnes' (only) friend for some time already before her birthday.
Ehh.. is this a plausible explanation? :)

Thomas
Webmaster www.showmelove.tv
Show me Love
 

Postby absoluted » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:36 pm

2/22/02 3:11:36 am

Absoluted; I think it was both of these reasons that made Lukas shoot this scene. In fact this is also what I meant... The anticlimax you talk about is important also. The O'boy scene shows that no matter what a happy ending this film has, these are still very normal girls.


Agreed :)


About the doorbell; I think that Olof (Agnes' father) was so kind as to install a second doorbell at the bottom of the stairs to enable Viktoria to ring the bell when she comes to visit Agnes. Viktoria has probably been Agnes' (only) friend for some time already before her birthday. Ehh.. is this a plausible explanation?


Hey, I never thought of that. That does make sense.
absoluted
 

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