Did Elin have eyes for Agnes from the beginning?

Discuss Lukas Moodysson's first feature film Fucking Åmål (Show me Love).

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Did Elin have eyes for Agnes from the beginning?

Postby Hermes3G » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:52 am

Maybe I've seen too many Bergman and Kubrick films, looking for meaning in every word, gesture, and set prop. But I just can't shake this. While it’s loud and clear from the opening frames that Agnes is in love with Elin, I think Lucas shows, by subtle, almost subliminal hints (that he may have only been half aware of) that Elin has always had eyes for Agnes. This disparity in handling the characters is fitting because Agnes has accepted her sexuality (she's not shouting it from the rooftops but she's not denying it either), while Elin has yet to accept her own. Elin has been very careful about hiding her interest in Agnes, perhaps even from herself. She’s done such a good coverup that Agnes has completely missed it.

But I think the signs are there. Consider the following:

1. In the early scene in the school cafeteria, Elin moans that her life is boring, she hates it, etc. and puts her head down on the table in mock despair. Meanwhile, Camilla and the others rag on Agnes about her party, and Agnes storms out. This whole time, Elin has kept her head down on the table. The last shot in this scene shows her with head down, eyes open, not speaking but no longer holding her breath. She heard her friends tormenting Agnes but did not want to take part in it.

2. When Elin wants to go to Agnes' party rather than Christian's (notice how she overheard about Agnes' party in the cafeteria and hasn't forgotten), she makes some rather lame excuses to Jessica. Maybe there will be cute guys, maybe there will be people from other towns. The real reason is because she wants to meet Agnes.

3. Elin knows what class Agnes is in ("in 9A"). She also knows where Agnes lives (how else do they find their way to her house?). Elin seems to know a lot about Agnes.

4. At Agnes' dismal "party" Elin lets out several revealing verbal slips. When Agnes is locked out of her own room, Elin wants to let her in because "she's nice." In her entire social circle, Elin is the only one who feels this way about Agnes.

5. When Jessica informs Elin that Agnes is rumored to be a lesbian, Elin, in the joking/serious manner of those inching close to the closet door, says it’s cool and that she wants to be one too. She makes this same remark later to Agnes and, I think, again at Christian's party.

6. Why does Elin kiss Agnes on the "dare"? I don't think Jessica meant it as a dare, just sarcastically. It's Elin who turns it into a dare ("will you give me 100?"). She does so because it's a golden opportunity she can't resist. “Bloody hell! Why did I do that?” Because she wanted to.

7. When they kiss for real in the back seat of the car, it is Elin who initiates the kiss. In fact, Elin initiates everything through the whole film: going to Agnes' party (which starts the whole relationship), the "dare" kiss, leaving Christian's party and going back to Agnes, the idea of running away to Stockholm, kissing in the car, the final talk in the restroom.

I don't think it's just a matter of Elin being lesbian from the beginning and gradually discovering it. I really think she always had her sights on Agnes, whether she knew it intellectually or not.

Am I nuts? What do you all think?
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Re: Did Elin have eyes for Agnes from the beginning?

Postby fish » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:16 am

Hermes3G wrote:...Am I nuts?...

Sorry, I should learn to let straight lines like that go unanswered. :P :lol:

It's a nice view you have but not one to which I subscribe.
I think in the beginning Elin genuinely doesn't know Agnes exists and Camilla's teasing in the cafeteria is the first sign she has that there's an Agnes out there somewhere, although even then she isn't very interested. After that it wouldn't be that difficult in a small town to find out where an alternative to Christian's party is happening. Anything to relieve the boredom of Fucking Åmål.

The rest is fate. It's always going to happen. The overwhelming joy of the film is the journey Agnes and Elin take to the sharing of the O'boy. *:)* *:)*


Just my view.
I'd love to hear others too.
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Re: Did Elin have eyes for Agnes from the beginning?

Postby Ian » Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:00 am

I do agree with fish that Elin genuinely doesn't know who Agnes is at the start, I'm afraid. I do agree with Hermes3G however that Elin is very much the initiator throughout, but I do think it's more of an innate, possibly even idle at first, curiosity that is the reason for it rather than (at least to begin with) Agnes herself.

Interesting interpretation, though.
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Re: Did Elin have eyes for Agnes from the beginning?

Postby DMt. » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:27 pm

I'm pretty much with all of it, myself, apart from maybe proposition 1 - it seems to me Elin doesn't know who Agnes is until the teasing about the doomed party starts; and even then she's too pissed-off to really take an interest at the time. The rest of it is spot on IMO.

Nice analysis, Hermes - you've evidently got it bad [and that's good].
Last edited by DMt. on Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Did Elin have eyes for Agnes from the beginning?

Postby Agnes&Elin Forever! » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:31 pm

I think it's a bit contradictory whether Elin did know Agnes before or not.

On the one hand she seems to not know her in the cafeteria scene.

On the other hand both Elin and her sister Jessica know stuff about Agnes, where she lives and that she's rumored to be a lesbian.

Camilla apparently regularly harasses Agnes, and Camilla is a part of Elin's crowd.

Elin also says to Agnes when they talk on the bridge, "why are you so strange?", "you are strange!"

I don't think Elin's always had her sights on Agnes though, but she quickly becomes intrigued by her for some reason.

It seems Elin's had at least a vague notion about some strange person called Agnes in her school.

:D
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Re: Did Elin have eyes for Agnes from the beginning?

Postby katka » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:49 pm

It will probably be a bit of truth on it, but only in terms of awareness and thinking about Elin's orientation. Because the story begins not since time when Agnes comming to Amal, but since about 2 years after moving. So we are not declassified relations between Elin and Agnes by this time, because as you write the scene in the dining room. Elin asks: ,,Which (or who) Agnes it is ?'' So she ''doing'' on purpose that she either doesn't know or really knows. I also think that kind of this feeling when a person ignorant in self, needs more time than is in the film. Elin's coming out lasted only a week! Which I think is quite impossible, if I take into account how difficult it must be a decision. It must discusses in her head, and so she makes sure about this feelings. It is quite unrealistic that someone would like it resolved after a week, after having felt in first time something like this like Elin! Anything else would will be if we were somehow indicated in the film hint of something that Elin was thinking about it earlier, before Agnes, it would make more sense. Otherwise this is pretty crazy when you'll properly think about it again. But overall I think here it seems more like love at first sight. :roll:
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Re: Did Elin have eyes for Agnes from the beginning?

Postby Hermes3G » Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:54 pm

I think you may all be right about #1. I guess I was thinking about real crushes I had at that age. It might have been someone completely outside my group, who I never interacted with, but she would keep popping into my head. No conscious thought, she would just appear in my mind. Sometimes I wouldn't even know her name. This could last almost a whole school year until I couldn't stand it anymore. "Why am I thinking about this person?" This happens to everyone right? I hope? :oops: Maybe this was happening to Elin with Agnes, maybe not.

Also, I may be reading too much into the car kiss. I doubt if Lukas choreographed the kiss in detail. He probably just said "Kees!" or however you say it in Swedish, and the girls just did what came naturally.

In which case, it's Alex who initiates the kiss. Put's her hand on the back of Bex's neck too. Hmm. What an intriguing can of worms that is. :wink:
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Re: Did Elin have eyes for Agnes from the beginning?

Postby Hermes3G » Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:52 pm

katka wrote:...I also think that kind of this feeling when a person ignorant in self, needs more time than is in the film. Elin's coming out lasted only a week!...


I agree that it normally takes longer, but I've seen it happen very quickly if one meets just the right person. It happened to my cousin. He'd had girlfriends and was even engaged to a girl. Then he met the right guy, I guess, and it was literally overnight. Friends and family gave him the usual crap "So we're supposed to believe you're just suddenly gay?" But of course it wasn't sudden, it was lifelong. Sometimes the right person does that. Like Elin and Agnes!
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Re: Did Elin have eyes for Agnes from the beginning?

Postby katka » Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:58 pm

Hermes3G wrote:
katka wrote:...I also think that kind of this feeling when a person ignorant in self, needs more time than is in the film. Elin's coming out lasted only a week!...


I agree that it normally takes longer, but I've seen it happen very quickly if one meets just the right person. It happened to my cousin. He'd had girlfriends and was even engaged to a girl. Then he met the right guy, I guess, and it was literally overnight. Friends and family gave him the usual crap "So we're supposed to believe you're just suddenly gay?" But of course it wasn't sudden, it was lifelong. Sometimes the right person does that. Like Elin and Agnes!


Yes I would can agree with it, because it is not like a blow out of nowhere, that slumbers within a human life until the right person, cause of which breaks all this. Everyone has a different course, but due to the fact that Elin is only 14 years, I have some doubts about the seriousness of this decision. Also her character it suggests that the later it could change something, what suddenly caused it, takes it all back. That whole relationship with Agnes was just a mistake. Or did she only a temporary curiosity and wanted to experiment. As she herself says: ,,I have to do something. I know! Fall in love! '' and etc. Due to Elin's impulsiveness we can also assume that, as the suddenly jumped into qeer style, so it may even jump out just as quickly. Because as I say, only 14 years and this age is for everyone quite simply untrustworthy.
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Re: Did Elin have eyes for Agnes from the beginning?

Postby katka » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:12 pm

Hermes3G wrote:I think you may all be right about #1. I guess I was thinking about real crushes I had at that age. It might have been someone completely outside my group, who I never interacted with, but she would keep popping into my head. No conscious thought, she would just appear in my mind. Sometimes I wouldn't even know her name. This could last almost a whole school year until I couldn't stand it anymore. "Why am I thinking about this person?" This happens to everyone right? I hope? :oops: Maybe this was happening to Elin with Agnes, maybe not.

Also, I may be reading too much into the car kiss. I doubt if Lukas choreographed the kiss in detail. He probably just said "Kees!" or however you say it in Swedish, and the girls just did what came naturally.

In which case, it's Alex who initiates the kiss. Put's her hand on the back of Bex's neck too. Hmm. What an intriguing can of worms that is. :wink:


This Elin's hand behind Agne's neck I noticed too. :lol: I have even calculated how long the kiss lasted. A total of 12 seconds :lol: :lol: :lol:
peace, I've been after seeing how crazy and have noticed absolutely everything.
And if it helps you to confirm it in its argument, so I can offer such an interest...When I noticed about six months ago, I watched the FA about after 30 times. I put the headphones completly out loud and immediately after the dream scene, when Elin strangely groaned so she silently pronounce: ,,Agnes...Agnes.'' But Jessica is quite noisy with her: ,,Elin! '' That's almost not hear, but it's there. In other languages ​​it is not dubbed, and I think even Lukas about this fine detail doesn't know.
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Re: Did Elin have eyes for Agnes from the beginning?

Postby Hermes3G » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:42 pm

katka wrote:Because as I say, only 14 years and this age is for everyone quite simply untrustworthy.


I agree it's unusual, but it does happen.
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Re: Did Elin have eyes for Agnes from the beginning?

Postby katka » Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:14 pm

Hermes3G wrote:
katka wrote:Because as I say, only 14 years and this age is for everyone quite simply untrustworthy.


I agree it's unusual, but it does happen.


yeah definitely it does :wink:
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