FA on television

[lobabu]

First, I apologise. I'm french, and my english is very very bad. I saw FA on Arte last week. For me, it's not only a film about homosexuality. It's more a film about teenager, the difficulty to be a teenager in a very conformist (I don't know if the word is correct) neighbourhood. Finally, like we say in France, Agnes ans Elin are 2 "monstres d'humanité" ("monsters of humanity") because they are different. And the most important is that Moodyson doesn't judge them, and doesn't try to show them better than they are; they are only human... Of course, the 2 actress are fantastic,marvellous...I didn't know them before, and it was really a big discovery...This is one the most lovely film I ever seen. Somethime, a film touch you without any specific reason. This one do it. In the past, I had the same feeling with a film by Rob Reiner: "Stand by me" (I saw it when I was a teenagger, so I'm not one since a long time!)... Really, thanks Arte!
Lobabu

[Ian]

And another one joins the fold!

Welcome aboard.


To me, I'm not sure it's just even about being a teenager, to be honest. I think it's about being a human being.


Either that, or I'm just emotionally retarded, since I'm neither gay nor a teenager, and I completely relate to both of them!

[kant1781]

To me, I'm not sure it's just even about being a teenager, to be honest. I think it's about being a human being. Either that, or I'm just emotionally retarded, since I'm neither gay nor a teenager, and I completely relate to both of them!

In the past, I had the same feeling with a film by Rob Reiner: "Stand by me"

Salut lobabu. The Rob Reiner connection is exactly right! "Stand By Me" affected me deeply when I grew up. There's another one - again, completely different, and dark because of its historical setting, but with the same power: "Au revoir les enfants" by Louis Malle.

[eric]

Finally, I already feared that FA might begin to lose it's appeal, after almost 10 years. But here, you are, a new fan and probably enjoying it as much as we all have already. I'd say, get the DVD, take a week off and watch it with those who are dearest to you as often as you can. It's worth it.

... snip

In the past, I had the same feeling with a film by Rob Reiner: "Stand by me"

Salut lobabu. The Rob Reiner connection is exactly right! "Stand By Me" affected me deeply when I grew up. There's another one - again, completely different, and dark because of its historical setting, but with the same power: "Au revoir les enfants" by Louis Malle.

Funny isn't it, how we all share common things. I loved Stand by me too, I still have the VHS tape, but haven't watched it in a long time. Guess that is going to change now.

[lobabu]

[quote="kant1781"][quote="codyw1"]To me, I'm not sure it's just even about being a teenager, to be honest. I think it's about being a human being. Either that, or I'm just emotionally retarded, since I'm neither gay nor a teenager, and I completely relate to both of them![/quote]

^O^ ^O^ ^O^

[quote="lobabu"]In the past, I had the same feeling with a film by Rob Reiner: "Stand by me"[/quote]

Salut lobabu. The Rob Reiner connection is exactly right! "Stand By Me" affected me deeply when I grew up. There's another one - again, completely different, and dark because of its historical setting, but with the same power: "Au revoir les enfants" by Louis Malle.[/quote]

Hallo, Kant. I didn't think about "Au revoir les enfants" before your post and you're right. But, for me, it's litle bit different, because this film is about a true story lived (?) by Louis Malle during the war. For me, "Stand by me" or FA are different for 3 reasons.
1:"Stand by me" is at the end of the 50' or the beginning of the 60' and FA in the last 90'. But, in fact, they could be happened yesterday, tomorow or in 10 years. This universal aspect is very interesting
2: the conception of the story is "similar": in the 2 films, the most importants characters are:
*a boy or a girl (Agnes in FA) very shy, interresting by writing (in "Stand...", if I remember well, the boy become an author), a little bit lonely, etc.
*another boy or girl (Elin), very exuberent, very popular, speaking a lot, not very good in school... (In "Stand", the boy played by R. Phoenix).
And the interpretation has some common points. R. Liljeberg is marvellous because she plays Agnes in a "light way". (AAHH, it's difficult to me to explain clearly what I want to say). For exemple, in the beginning of FA, the scene in the hall of school, when Elin apologise to her sister about the contest. Agnes look to Elin and it isn't a look of desire but a look of desesperate love. The frontier between love and desire is very short. R. liljeberg success to do that. It's incredible, the nomber of emotion that she could make understand by a look. she 's really fantastic. And the boy who play the future author in "Stand..." was a little like that, with an expressive face...
In a same view, A. Dahlström look like R. Phoenix: each one has an extroardinary presence on screen; Elin, as we say in french "bouffe l'écran" (she's eating the screen). In every scene, except those with Agnes (but they are not so much finally), she leads it and the spectator is looking her, even she doesn't speak. that's phenomenal, especially for a 14 years hold girl! In "Stand...", R. Phoenix was like that whith the other boys. He was strongher than them...
3:for me it's the most complicate to explain. Moodysson and Reiner have some very different style but a common view. I think they diply like teenaggers and they only want to show and not demonstrate. They don't say: "Oh, look at these poor boys or poor girls, the life is strongh for them, please take your handkerchief and cry..." Its' more simple, more delicate, more real and that's why I think those film touch me very much: when I saw FA, the scene between Agnes and Elin on the bridge remember (I don't know the correct end of the word!!!) me the scene between R. Phoenix and the other boy near the fire in the forest; the subject was different but the treatment of the scene is the same (almost in my opinion)... Well, it's very long, but I have so much to say about this film...
Salut,
Lobabu

[lobabu]

[quote="codyw1"]And another one joins the fold!

Welcome aboard.


To me, I'm not sure it's just even about being a teenager, to be honest. I think it's about being a human being.


Either that, or I'm just emotionally retarded, since I'm neither gay nor a teenager, and I completely relate to both of them!

:D :lol:[/quote]
Hello, and thank you for your welcome. When you're talking about human being, you're right of course. But the most important for me is that these human being are teenaggers. I try to explain: I'm teacher for pupills about 13 to 15 years hold. Last tuesday, the conversation derived on homosexuality. Both of them were saying: "AAHh, its' uggly, I don't understand that, the gays are hill...". Fortunatly, some other were trying to say something else...During the conversation between us, I was thinking: "OK, I'm in Fucking Amal", and it was terrible. I think that the whorts ennemies of adolescense are the adolescents. They seem to be idealistic, open to the other, etc, but it's not true for a lot of them. A lot of them think that they always right, they wan't to hear another opinion, etc. That's why I was writing "monsters of humanity" about Agnes ans Elin. For Agnes, it's clear at the beginning of the film: the first scene in font of the PC makes you understand she's different (not only on a sexual plan). For Elin, the process is slowly. Who is she in the beggining? A kind of "bimbo" (lovely girl, blond hair, a lot of friends or suitors, very exuberent...). So what? The break is during the scene on the bridge, when she explain her dream and say that she doesn't want to be a wife with children and with a man wich could go away for a younguest woman. It's like a revival for her, as she has access to humanity. She show(s?) you she's better that she seems. It's a very beautiful scene...
Lobabu

[lobabu]

[quote="eric"]Finally, I already feared that FA might begin to lose it's appeal, after almost 10 years. But here, you are, a new fan and probably enjoying it as much as we all have already. I'd say, get the DVD, take a week off and watch it with those who are dearest to you as often as you can. It's worth it. ;)
Hello. That's true: I'm a fan, and that's very funny to talk about this film 10 years after. So, I buy it on internet (it's impossible to get it in France) but I'm not sure if I gonna see it with my girl-friend. If she doesn't like it, i gonna be very sad. I think I will say : "look this alone and let's talk about after!"
lobabu

[quote="kant1781"]
... snip

[quote="lobabu"]In the past, I had the same feeling with a film by Rob Reiner: "Stand by me"[/quote]

Salut lobabu. The Rob Reiner connection is exactly right! "Stand By Me" affected me deeply when I grew up. There's another one - again, completely different, and dark because of its historical setting, but with the same power: "Au revoir les enfants" by Louis Malle.[/quote]

Funny isn't it, how we all share common things. I loved Stand by me too, I still have the VHS tape, but haven't watched it in a long time. Guess that is going to change now.[/quote]

[kant1781]

Moodysson and Reiner have some very different style but a common view. I think they diply like teenaggers and they only want to show and not demonstrate. They don't say: "Oh, look at these poor boys or poor girls, the life is strongh for them, please take your handkerchief and cry..." Its' more simple, more delicate, more real and that's why I think those film touch me very much

Yes, I completely agree. There is no preaching in Moodysspon's movies (that goes for Fucking Åmål as for Lilya 4ever). In a mediocre mainstream film, a character would have turned up, for example, to deliver a moralizing speech to Elin's classmates about how homosexuality is natural and that they have a right to be happy too and so on... someone would have to put things right, to throw the moral in your face. But that is not only missing, in fact Moodysson mocks the whole idea, because there is such a character, Mamma Karin, but Lukas obviously has some kind of diabolic fun in showing how miserably she fails in trying to establish herself as the moral standard. She doesn't even get to the end of her speech before it bursts out of her: "WHO IS IT???" A typical case of Lukas Moodysson sarcasm.

"Stand by me" is at the end of the 50' or the beginning of the 60' and FA in the last 90'. But, in fact, they could be happened yesterday, tomorow or in 10 years. This universal aspect is very interesting.

Completely agree again. It could even have happened a hundred years ago. I once made the comparison between FÅ and Thomas Mann's "Tonio Kröger", which has e-x-a-c-t-l-y the same constellation of characters and the same subject. (One of the few ideas I am proud of... )
You're right that it's harder (and also probably not appropriate) to abstract these universal elements from "Au revoir les enfants", because that is not only a personal memoire, but also deeply entrenched in the history of WWII, but the universal elements are there, too. There's the intelligent, well-read, hyper-sensitive but shy outsider with a deeply-hidden secret (he's not gay, but Jewish here), and the leader of the gang who first mocks and scuffs him like the others do, but then feels drawn towards his sulkiness, discovers his secret, gains his trust, and learns to share his world, becoming a completely different person. I really love that film too.

[lobabu]

You're right that it's harder (and also probably not appropriate) to abstract these universal elements from "Au revoir les enfants", because that is not only a personal memoire, but also deeply entrenched in the history of WWII, but the universal elements are there, too. There's the intelligent, well-read, hyper-sensitive but shy outsider with a deeply-hidden secret (he's not gay, but Jewish here), and the leader of the gang who first mocks and scuffs him like the others do, but then feels drawn towards his sulkiness, discovers his secret, gains his trust, and learns to share his world, becoming a completely different person. I really love that film too.[/quote]

You right when you talk the presence of the same universal element in "Au revoir les enfants", but, I don't have the same felling that looking the 2 other. I don't know, perhaps, I see first the historical context (because of my job)... Another thing: it was a very special film for Louis Malle and it's clear he wanted to control everything, not to be accused to do some "sentimentalisme". Perhaps you know, but it was a real redemption for him. In the early '70, he did another film on WWII: "Lacombe Lucien". It's the story of a young man in the south of France, not very educated, who wants to know the adventure, some thrill. So, he try to enter the "Résistance" wich fight against germans, but it doesn't want him. So he enter the "milice" (an unofficial army which help german to hunt résistants). It was a scandal in France, because L. Malle was accused to put on the same plan résistants and miliciens. A lot of people and cinema-critics hated this film and him. Then he went to USA to do an american carrier. He only came back in France to do "Au revoir les enfants". When he won the "césar" (french oscar) of the best film in 1988, he did a very touching speech in wich he explained (I think it was the first time, maybe I'm wrong) the story was true and how much it hanted him for a long time before he could be delivred by making a film (I don't think the grammar is correct!). After that, both of critics had a different look on "Lacombe Lucien"...
Anywhay, Louis Malle is certainly one the most important french director.
lobabu

[kant1781]

...and one of my favourite ones too. I loved "L'ascenseur pour l'échafaud" (who doesn't), but I especially adore "Les amants", "Zazie dans le métro" and "Milou en mai".
Yes, I knew about the connection to "Lacombe Lucien". The character of Joseph from "Au revoir..." was supposed to be a kind of reincarnation of that personnage.

I'll stop comparing the two films now (because you're right, they are far apart), just one last little thing: Just like in Fucking Åmål, the two young lead actors in "Au revoir les enfants", Gaspard Manesse and Raphael Fejtö (I never forgot their names), maybe 14 years old then, gave a haunting, unbelievably brilliant, authentic and touching performance in this film - and then disappared from cinema completely.

[lobabu]

...and one of my favourite ones too. I loved "L'ascenseur pour l'échafaud" (who doesn't), but I especially adore "Les amants", "Zazie dans le métro" and "Milou en mai".
Yes, I knew about the connection to "Lacombe Lucien". The character of Joseph from "Au revoir..." was supposed to be a kind of reincarnation of that personnage.

I'll stop comparing the two films now (because you're right, they are far apart), just one last little thing: Just like in Fucking Åmål, the two young lead actors in "Au revoir les enfants", Gaspard Manesse and Raphael Fejtö (I never forgot their names), maybe 14 years old then, gave a haunting, unbelievably brilliant, authentic and touching performance in this film - and then disappared from cinema completely.

Hallo...
About Louis malle, there are 2 things I appreciate really:
1: and I must admit, this is a connection with FA and Moodyson (it's funny, I never think about it before our discussion), he never express any moral judgement about his "heroe". It's one of the first phrase prononced by J.P. Belmondo in "Le voleur": "je fais un sale métier, mais j'ai une excuse, je le fais salement". In fact, L. Malle show the complexity of the characters, the situation (the world) and say to the spectator: "Ok, I did my job. Now think, think what you want but think by yourself". There is never some good on one side and some bad on the other side. Everybody could be good or bad; that depend of context, of the neighborhood...It's cynical but very near of the reality. Of course, somethime, it's awkward like for "lacombe Lucien", but it's really interresting.
2: his work is always very elegant. There's nothing too much. Everything is on the right place, and he never looking for artificial effect. It sems to me very rightfull.
I don't see all his film. I don't like "Zazie...", but I think the book was very difficult to adapt. I saw "Ascenseur pour l'échafaud" once, when I was 9 or 10 years old, and I remember it very well (you hask who doesn't like it?: my girl-friend doesn't, neither "Milou en mai"...Nobody's perfect!). I like specially "Le voleur", "Au revoir les enfants" (of course; for me it's a "chef-d'oeuvre") and one of some made in E.U.: "Alamo bay". I like too some of his documentary, especially the one on India: "L'Inde fantôme". Some moments are terrible but there is a very formal beauty...Well, for me, he was really someone...
I change of subject; I discover your work on "FA", yesterday.Hou, what a work! I read it slowly because of my poor english (I have a dictionnary and a glass of water near the PC!!), and because your studie make me think a lot of things about the film and sometime I'm disagree with what I read. I saw you give your adress on the site. If it's still correct (and if you are ok, of course), I'll send you directly my impressions on your essay...
Last but not least: you give some links ans especially one in spanish; in fact, the site exist in english on this adress: http://www.fuckingamalsts.com/inenglish/index.htm
tschuss,
Lobabu

[Agnes&Elin Forever!]

Regarding good or bad and moral judgement of FÅ and Moodysson, the film is about teenagers.

They do stupid things sometimes and have moodswings, they still have good hearts.

And FÅ is ultimately a very sweet film, it could certainly have ended up much harsher with another director in charge I think.

But maybe you were mostly refering to this film by Louis Malle?
I haven't seen this myself.

[kant1781]

I saw you give your adress on the site. If it's still correct (and if you are ok, of course), I'll send you directly my impressions on your essay...

It is still correct, and I am more than okay, je serais ravi!
(Et merci pour le lien!)

[lobabu]

Regarding good or bad and moral judgement of FÅ and Moodysson, the film is about teenagers.

They do stupid things sometimes and have moodswings, they still have good hearts.

And FÅ is ultimately a very sweet film, it could certainly have ended up much harsher with another director in charge I think.

But maybe you were mostly refering to this film by Louis Malle?
I haven't seen this myself.

Yes, exactly. I just wanted to say that Moodyson and Malle don't try to impose a judgement . Their characters are not caricatural. That's why FA is so just.

[fish]

No good to me but here's another update on what's on TV.

On TV1000 Nordic tomorrow 18th Sept 2009, at 1:00pm and again at 7:00pm.

Fucking Åmål
Lukas Moodysson ligger bakom den här prisbelönade ungdomsfilmen om hur det är att växa upp som lesbisk i en svensk småstad. Bland de tonåriga huvudpersonerna märks bl.a. den tuffa Elin som hånglat med massor av killar men som ändå är oskuld, Elins killtokiga storasyster Jessica och hennes pojkvän Markus som tycker att han är coolast i hela stan, samt den mesige Johan som är mammas gosse och inte vågar säga varken bu eller bä. Och så Agnes förstås, som är ensammast i världen och är så kär att hon nästan spricker.

Now I know I have 2 bought dvd's plus a spare burned one, (just to compare sub-titles mind, nothing obsessive. ), but I'm still jealous.