Never too late to watch a good film

[bruno]

Cheers, and first of all, please forgive my bad english.

It's a very strange thing, this movie came to my country in 2000 and I was interested in it, but I ended up forgetting about going to watch it.

Finally I downloaded it (and I still want to buy the DVD if I can find the right version...) and watched... and I discovered this film is very good and... it's 10 years old already (on october, 23 it seems).

I found FÅ very touching and an awesome piece of art, else I would not be here writing my review, obviously. I'm a middle aged man and the teenage movies are not my stuff (sometimes I find them fun, but sure I'm not very interested) and I have to say the first part of FÅ didnt work so well for me.
Probably many will disagree (if there's someone who still wants to read a review, obviously ) but in my opinion FÅ has a difficult start.
The birthday party the girl doesnt want, the mother who prepare roast beef forgetting about Agnes being vegan (or vegetarian?), the showdown where Agnes says to Victoria all the nasty truths (were they truths?), and then no one comes to the party... well, everything sounds cliché to me.

After watching half of the film I stopped. It didn't appeal to me, even if some of the Elin outbursts were funny. The day after, I was about to delete the file but I said to myself, you just don't want to face some memories (not all of them beautiful) and flashbacks this story is giving you. So I decided to brace for the second half of the film: and the story that really counts started to kick-in from there.
After the kiss-in-the-car scene the problem starts for Elin (yes, I think she has the most interesting role). Problem is: to be part of the "gang" and have a boyfriend, bear the terrible boredom and so on, or getting to know herself and to understand her true desires. The viewer sure can identify with that, irrespective of gender, age, being gay or not.
Agnes has to bear in silence the disappointment of seeing her hopes cruelly crushed, and wait, and to give new trust on Elin over and over again, until the happy end. Good actress, less interesting role.

Film themes' importance has nothing to do with the girls being lesbian after all, but oh well, they are soooo cute... being honest I think I could rather not have watched this film had it be about a two male gay boys' story, and if really FÅ appeals more to the males than to females as I read somewhere, probably it's because of the good looking girls.
Quick note number one: I find Agnes' father to be a good fellow, he understands he can do so little for the daughter but he's intelligent in the way he tries anyway. Number two: Johan is not the brightest guy in the world but he is true in his love: no happy end for him, and I feel this is very sad. But had the director made a side-story for him, where he finds another girl after Elin leaves him, the film would be cheesy and less true.

This said, FÅ is a honest, direct film about coming of age, knowing yourself, learning to make your own decisions and standing up to them.
In other words, a damn good film.

But I guess it's ten years you already know it ...

[Ian]

[



Film themes' importance has nothing to do with the girls being lesbian after all, but oh well, they are soooo cute... being honest I think I could rather not have watched this film had it be about a two male gay boys' story, and if really FÅ appeals more to the males than to females as I read somewhere, probably it's because of the good looking girls.

...

LOL Bruno. I think that's a fairly inevitable response from a heterosexual male's perspective, mate!

Rebecka's impossible attractiveness is certainly ONE of the reasons I fell in love with the movie. Nothing wrong with that, mate, it's called being human.

Can't say I agree that there's anything wrong with the first part of the movie, though.

[bruno]

LOL Bruno. I think that's a fairly inevitable response from a heterosexual male's perspective
...........
Can't say I agree that there's anything wrong with the first part of the movie, though.

Well, there's a few movies with a strong gay male theme that can appeal to everyone, straight men included. The Rocky Horror Picture Show and the award winning Kiss of the Spider Woman, for example (IMHO of course). But as for FÅ I think I could not appreciate that.

As for the first part of FÅ, I think there's too much stuff that is here just to set the mood of the film, but this is my point of vue obviously: as I explained before, I think the really original and interesting part of the drama is after Elin and Agnes exchange their first kiss.

[Agnes&Elin Forever!]

Thanks for your views on the film Bruno.

Interesting to read that you at first didn't find it so appealing and even stopped watching, but that you gave it a second chance and then changed your mind about it.

Maybe the film do have some clichés, but this doesn't matter I think. If you want to be critical you could even say the charachters are a little stereotype, with Elin as the popular outgoing girl, Agnes as the outsider who spends most of her time in her room, Johan as the shy but sweet boy, and so on.

But it works and the film is still quite unique as a whole, but it's not about homosexuality as I've said before.

And regarding FÅ being more popular with men, maybe it's very popular among certain kinds of men, the romantic type, I don't know.

In Sweden the film was extremely popular among both male and female, teenagers and adults.

Besides who could not think Agnes and Elin look adorable together?

[mpox]

Maybe the film do have some clichés, but this doesn't matter I think. If you want to be critical you could even say the charachters are a little stereotype, with Elin as the popular outgoing girl, Agnes as the outsider who spends most of her time in her room, Johan as the shy but sweet boy, and so on.

One of the things that make it interesting though is it turns the clichéd "hollywood" story on its head. Instead of the popular girl helping the outsider become one of the crowd she moves to the outsider. Instead of the shy, sweet boy getting the girl he's the one who loses out (though it's implied he gets the sister).

I didn't have a problem with the first half of the movie, I thought it was important to set up the rest of the movie. Bruno if you haven't you should read this essay that kant1781 wrote:

http://freenet-homepage.de/what-its-all-about/

I'm not so sure that Moodysson was that calculating in everything he did (i.e. I'm not sure he was as brilliant as the piece makes out, if you read interviews he doesn't even seem to think all that much of the film) but it's an interesting read and will give you more appreciation for the various facets of the film.

And regarding FÅ being more popular with men, maybe it's very popular among certain kinds of men, the romantic type, I don't know.

There is a lot of stuff going on that makes it appeal to some more than others but the sample you're looking at isn't necessarily representative of the fanbase. I think guys are just a lot more likely to post on internet forums.

Back to the point I suspect that men might view two girls getting together more favorably than do women because it's not really challenging their idea of identity - they find women sexually attractive too. This is especially true of a movie like FÅ where both characters are cute girls, if Agnes were super butch then I don't know that it'd go over so well (but then the story wouldn't work either ).

[bruno]

I didn't have a problem with the first half of the movie, I thought it was important to set up the rest of the movie. Bruno if you haven't you should read this essay that kant1781 wrote:

http://freenet-homepage.de/what-its-all-about/

I'm not so sure that Moodysson was that calculating in everything he did (i.e. I'm not sure he was as brilliant as the piece makes out, if you read interviews he doesn't even seem to think all that much of the film) but it's an interesting read and will give you more appreciation for the various facets of the film.

Well I did read the essay, I don't agree 100 % but I think it's very interesting and detailed and I hope this little masterpiece stays online in the years to come. Still, in my opinion kant1781 could possibly have gone in his analysis more deep than the director-writer himself

I'm not saying that I could imagine a better start for the movie and obviously some things were to be stated before the real drama began: who the girls are, the setting, something about Johan and Markus etc.
I already named some of the scenes that sounded a bit too much cliché to me, and I think it would be useless to debate about that; I noted the remark by Agnes&Elin Forever! about the characters, "if you want to be critical they could be considered sterotype too," my answer is: no, I don't want to be so critical, for their age I think the characters are good, I remember myself and some people I knew when 15 y old, well, many of us were stereotypes too ...and the only one of the adults in the movie who gets some characterization (Agnes' father) is not a stereotype at all.

The interest in the film (for me) starts when Elin really notices Agnes (leaving the party and going back to her) and this happens after about 30 minutes in the movie! After that, the only scene that could be cliche is Agnes throwing her books around the room in rage. Drama and fiction really kicks in from the first time the girls really speak. Maybe it's because I find the evolution in Elin more interesting than Agnes' character.
But I'm not here to persuade anyone, just to share my point of vue.

As for

One of the things that make it interesting though is it turns the clichéd "hollywood" story on its head. Instead of the popular girl helping the outsider become one of the crowd she moves to the outsider. Instead of the shy, sweet boy getting the girl he's the one who loses out (though it's implied he gets the sister).

Well, it's true this is no Hollywood story, and these are both details that could not be altered without changing the meaning of the film, IMHO. Johan could not be with Elin at the end of the movie (but if he gets Jessica I'm happy for him!) and the story is about finding identity and freedom of choice (leaving "Åmal" intended as a state of mind).

[Ian]

In all honesty, the main reason I wanted to see the film in the first place all those years ago was...er... seeing a photo of Rebecka in the paper circa 2000 and thinking "Wow, she's cute". Not really the lesbian angle (can't say I've really seen many others) or even the great write-up it got.

Of course, there's more to that as to why the movie affected me so much, that goes without saying. But that was the main reason I was compelled to seek out such a relatively obscure foreign movie in the first place.

Shallow, I know, but there you go.

[Agnes&Elin Forever!]

In all honesty, the main reason I wanted to see the film in the first place all those years ago was...er... seeing a photo of Rebecka in the paper circa 2000 and thinking "Wow, she's cute".

It was love at first sight

[Ian]

LOL Something like that, Magnus!

[MSandt]

but in my opinion FÅ has a difficult start.
The birthday party the girl doesnt want, the mother who prepare roast beef forgetting about Agnes being vegan (or vegetarian?), the showdown where Agnes says to Victoria all the nasty truths (were they truths?), and then no one comes to the party... well, everything sounds cliché to me

I think all that was pretty essential in that it boosted the emotional effectiveness of the actual story and especially the ending. Good things don't come easy, you know.

Anyways, the scenes you mentioned, they were very effective, you could really feel Agnes's pain and frustration.

[kant1781]

I suspect that men might view two girls getting together more favorably than do women because it's not really challenging their idea of identity - they find women sexually attractive too. This is especially true of a movie like FÅ where both characters are cute girls, if Agnes were super butch then I don't know that it'd go over so well (but then the story wouldn't work either ).

As before, I'd caution against downplaying the lesbian thing. Sure, the film is not "about" homosexuality. But that's exactly the trick (sort of). The homosexuality is just there, so unquestioned, feeling so right, that you hardly notice it. Still, it is (I think) absurd to conclude (as some people actually did), "it could be about a boy and a girl as well". No, it couldn't. It would reduce to a mediocre and clichéd boy-meets-girl-romance immediately like we see them on TV by the thousands.

[bruno]

As before, I'd caution against downplaying the lesbian thing. Sure, the film is not "about" homosexuality. But that's exactly the trick (sort of). The homosexuality is just there, so unquestioned, feeling so right, that you hardly notice it. Still, it is (I think) absurd to conclude (as some people actually did), "it could be about a boy and a girl as well". No, it couldn't. It would reduce to a mediocre and clichéd boy-meets-girl-romance immediately like we see them on TV by the thousands.

I partially agree.
I remember the interview with director (or producer? but doesnt matter) of the "Secretary" movie, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_(film) for a plot summary: he said "it has not to be SM," when asked to tell about the girl's road to freedom.
He said the movie was about this girl understanding all the falseness and crap surrounding her (dysfunctional family and so on...), discovering herself and finding something taht works for her (in Secretary it was the SM relationship). I find this "having to understand" thing very similar to Elin role in FÅ.
If you've seen Secretary you already know that in her personal road to consciousness the girl (played by Maggie Gyllenhaal) will go quicker than her sadistic lawyer boss, who is afraid (almost to the end of the movie) to take her as his wife-slave. I find another similarity with FÅ here (Agnes conscious, focused and sure about who she is, Elin having to discover everything).
Yet another similarity: the lawyer in Secretary will react badly first (as Elin to Agnes): he will fire the girl because he's not sure what to do with her.

Maybe Secretary was made having FÅ in mind. But it seems to me this kind of film need the "strange thing" that forces the hero (heroine) to fight against cultural diktat and social stigma.
This could be the interracial couple in the deep south of the USA, the beautiful girl who marries the clumsy nerd... could be a lot of things but they have to be strong enough to mark the difference from a "normal" relationship.
So it "has to be about something strong" but maybe "has not to be about homosexualitry."

[Ian]

[
As before, I'd caution against downplaying the lesbian thing. Sure, the film is not "about" homosexuality. But that's exactly the trick (sort of). The homosexuality is just there, so unquestioned, feeling so right, that you hardly notice it. Still, it is (I think) absurd to conclude (as some people actually did), "it could be about a boy and a girl as well". No, it couldn't. It would reduce to a mediocre and clichéd boy-meets-girl-romance immediately like we see them on TV by the thousands.

Quite. The reality, of course, is that while it IS, on one level, about homosexuality, the reason it communicates so strongly is that isn't about it as some kind of polemic. It's ABOUT Agnes and Elin, two girls who we come to know and love and root for. It's not political, it's personal... which is why it reaches anyone and everyone in possession of a soul.

[Agnes&Elin Forever!]

Yes of course FÅ isn't comparable to a conventional boy-meets-girl love story

But there is nothing truly controversial about Agnes and Elin's relationship either

Their sweet lesbian teenage romance is not in any way difficult to accept for the film's audience, only to the narrow-minded people of the fictional Åmål

So the film is mostly about being different, being an outsider to the majority, and finding your own identity

Moodysson was an outsider himself when he grew up, he obviously knows the feelings associated with this

If the film's main point was homosexuality it should have chosen a different type of lesbian love, or a gay men love story, or whatever, something more challenging at least

But then we would have a totally different film than the current FÅ