SML Dream

Discuss Lukas Moodysson's first feature film Fucking Åmål (Show me Love).

Moderator: Ian

Postby mpox » Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:29 am

fish wrote:Perhaps you only need to put Sherdil aside for a while and take on a new project to invigorate yourself. Something like the whole Fucking Åmål movie which can be found here...

Urgh, the resolution on that is awful. Is that the Australian release? I was curious about the subtitles but it seems they're worse than the ones I have, I didn't watch very much of it but off-hand I noticed:

1) It says "My secret list" instead of "My secret wish list." The latter is more appropriate in context.
2) It says "Elin will see me" rather than "Elin will look at me." They both imply the act of Elin seeing Agnes but the latter used in this manner has a richer connotation. A better translation might be "Elin will notice me." but the latter is close enough that you get the idea.

When I first came to this board I wanted to get a definitive english sub put together but the one I had is pretty good so I never bothered. Some little stuff like not translating the poem completely could still be fixed but overall it's pretty good. If I'd only ever seen the Aussie version and if that's what that is then I'd think about scaring up a different one just in case there's more butchery afoot.
mpox
Gold Member
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:36 am

Postby Ian » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:13 am

I noticed that the subs on the dvd release were slightly different in some cases from the ones on the VHS rental. This irked me a little.
User avatar
Ian
Webmaster
 
Posts: 16102
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:39 am
Location: Round the Bend

Postby fish » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:27 am

I have two bought copies, one from the UK and one from Norway, (though I expect it's probably the Swedish production). I haven't copied this one yet (doing it now), but I have noticed that the subtitles are different on each one. I have no idea where the Google one is from but like you I would really like to have a good set of subtitles because while each is good in parts, there are other parts that are downright annoying.

For instance just two of many in the UK one;
. When Elin takes the "drugs" in to see Jessica, "Novalucol" (?) is subbed as "antacid". (The joke is completely spoiled.)
. In the coming out scene when Agnes clearly says something sounding very much like "Let's go out", the sub reads "lets just leave".

I don't know whether the subtitles into other languages are the same but it seems like the English ones are done without any thought of context and by someone who is not used to actually speaking English. (Antacid indeed. Bloody annoying)

The Norwegian one has similar faults but in different areas. Again, I suspect, a translator who does not understand the language.

If only there were decent subtitles around Fucking Åmål would be even greater for those of us who don't speak Swedish.
Fish
User avatar
fish
Crew Member
 
Posts: 16659
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:34 am
Location: Adelaide, Oz

Postby fish » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:33 am

Just had a quick browse through the burned FÅ. Picture quality is only about 6/10 and the sound seems just slightly out of sinc. The subtitles are fairly similar to the Norwegian/Swedish copy, good for much of the film but disappointing for the rest. Again I suspect, done by a non-English speaker.

As an exercise in converting and burning a large file using Total Video2Dvd it was very easy with no hitches, but as a copy of FÅ worth keeping, forget it. It seems that unless the source file contains high quality images there is nothing that can make it good on the burned disc.

The next challenge seems to be to find high quality source material.
Fish
User avatar
fish
Crew Member
 
Posts: 16659
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:34 am
Location: Adelaide, Oz

Postby mpox » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:04 am

fish wrote:If only there were decent subtitles around Fucking Åmål would be even greater for those of us who don't speak Swedish.

This is a translation of the script, I had it bookmarked from back when I first saw the movie:

http://f-amal.weisenbacher.com/fascript.htm

I'm not sure how close it stays to the film. If I remember right there are some things that work better from the DVD and some things that are still awkwardly phrased, for example the poem that Elin sees on the computer when her and Jessica are drinking the wine in Agnes' room:

You are my sun
you shine over me
you warm me
but I can't touch you!
You are so far out
I am a little planet
which turns around you
round round round
by all the planets
which you never see

I think I translated that with some online thing before I found the translation but the "which turns around you" should in context be "which orbits around you," it's just little things like that where the translator looks up a word they don't know and for which there are a number of synonyms but it's hard to pick the right one because you're not used to the language.

Here's another example, from the script:

JESSICA: But you are never satisified! You always get what you want!

ELIN: What the hell do you know about that? How the hell do you know that I get everything I want?

On the srt file on my computer:

618
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:45,360
No, but you're never satisfied.
You always get what you want.

619
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:49,640
Get what I want?
What the hell do you know about that!

I don't know about the literal translation but the second version seems more like what a native English speakers would say. So we have the added complexity of the literal translation not always being the best. :)
mpox
Gold Member
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:36 am

Postby Ian » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:16 am

I'm pretty sure (not 100%, mind) that the oz dvd has the latter version of that last one.
User avatar
Ian
Webmaster
 
Posts: 16102
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:39 am
Location: Round the Bend

Postby snaps » Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:33 pm

There is another English translation available via the wiki page, but is just dialogue no background and directions. I noticed slight differences between the Google version I first watched and the translation on my Moodysson box set. Not major though, e.g. (<<<< this is Latin! :lol: ) in the thumbing lift to Stockholm scene in one version Elin says when she has a car she'll ''always stop for hitchhikers'', and in the other version she is credited with saying something else. Not major though.

I think it's helpful, even if it doesn't make direct sense to quote the Swedish context so we learn a bit more about the culture. So, for example, I believe the direct translation of the English 'Happy Birthday to You'' song (as spoken in the film in traditional Swedish) is ''May she live for 100 years''.

I incorporated a Swedishism ''as dumb as a train'' in my FA prequel fanficblog. It may not make immediate sense but I think adds to some authenticity. :Y
User avatar
snaps
Crew Member
 
Posts: 2151
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:41 pm
Location: Fiskargatan 9, Södermalm, 11620 STOCKHOLM

Postby fish » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:47 am

The "You are my sun" poem is never translated at all on either of my bought copies. You have to do a bit of research to find out what Elin has read which is a shame 'cause it's a touching little piece which gives a lot of insight into the depth of Agnes' feelings.

As far as the other translation "gaffs" go I guess it can be difficult to show exact meaning and context in another language when that other language has so many idiomatic differences around the world. A quick example would be at Christian's party when Camilla asks Elin how the kiss felt. The UK version shows "great" the Nor/Swe shows "wicked". I don't think we would use the word "wicked" here in Oz so we might consider that a bad sub, whereas others wouldn't.

At the other end of course are the lazy or careless errors. Hitchhiking scene. Agnes talking to driver. UK copy, "been visiting our Gran". Other copy, "visiting our Aunt". Not the end of the world but any remaining credibility is further eroded.

I guess we would all like the sub-titles to have the exact meaning of what is said translated into our own familiar idiom, but realistically that just not going to happen.

Still, better than dubbing any day.
Fish
User avatar
fish
Crew Member
 
Posts: 16659
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:34 am
Location: Adelaide, Oz

Postby mpox » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:49 am

codyw1 wrote:I'm pretty sure (not 100%, mind) that the oz dvd has the latter version of that last one.

Ah, I just meant that as an example of translation, that's from a script rather than the actual movie (and they tend to change as the movie gets made). Maybe a better example would be the part in FÅ where they're coming out of the toilet and Elin says "we're going to go fuck now," from what I remember from reading the board when I first arrived the literal translation wasn't quite so definitive about them having sex, it was more like the English "snog", but it was just such a shocking, Elin thing to say that even knowing that I wouldn't want it to be anything else.
mpox
Gold Member
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:36 am

Postby fish » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:58 am

mpox wrote:Maybe a better example would be the part in FÅ where they're coming out of the toilet and Elin says "we're going to go fuck now," from what I remember from reading the board when I first arrived the literal translation wasn't quite so definitive about them having sex, it was more like the English "snog", but it was just such a shocking, Elin thing to say that even knowing that I wouldn't want it to be anything else.

I think it was "We're going for a shag", (shag being a more polite and very English term for fuck), which when you consider the number of times Elin says fuck thoughout the film is just a bit too protective of our gentle souls. (Another bloody annoying sub :x )
Fish
User avatar
fish
Crew Member
 
Posts: 16659
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:34 am
Location: Adelaide, Oz

Postby mpox » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:14 am

fish wrote:The "You are my sun" poem is never translated at all on either of my bought copies. You have to do a bit of research to find out what Elin has read which is a shame 'cause it's a touching little piece which gives a lot of insight into the depth of Agnes' feelings.

I seem to remember that being one of Moodysson's poems from when he was younger and that he thought Rebecka thought it wasn't very good, lol.

As far as the other translation "gaffs" go I guess it can be difficult to show exact meaning and context in another language when that other language has so many idiomatic differences around the world. A quick example would be at Christian's party when Camilla asks Elin how the kiss felt. The UK version shows "great" the Nor/Swe shows "wicked". I don't think we would use the word "wicked" here in Oz so we might consider that a bad sub, whereas others wouldn't.

Mine has "wicked." It'd be interesting to see what the literal one is, it's probably some slang used that doesn't have an exact English translation so the translator used English slang that with the proper inflection could be used to mean good. The same intent with a modern translation might be "sick". For context the script has "beautiful," and I think they were right to change it to something more like what kids would say.

Still, better than dubbing any day.

For sure, I'd rather hear the actors original voices every time. There was some debate when i first got here about this, I guess in other cultures (I think the guy was German) the common thing is to dub so that's what they're used to. Since so many films are made in English it's hard to get the proper perspective on this, the occasional subbed movie is fine and I tend to watch more than most, but I can see where if a large majority of the films that were shown were done in another language I'd be more accepting to dubbed.
mpox
Gold Member
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:36 am

Postby fish » Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:01 am

The Bingo scene. After spitting from the bridge. Elin listens to Marcus prattling on about his "Mobile telephone". UK version "Mobile phone". Nor/Swe "Cell phone". Another example of putting in a sub to suit a sector of the market's idiom rather than to translate what was said.

And "Moron". How many times was "Idiot" subbed as "Moron"?

Don't get me started. :lol:

I seem to remember that being one of Moodysson's poems from when he was younger and that he thought Rebecka thought it wasn't very good, lol.

It's beautiful. Don't know how anyone would think that. LM must have been wrong.
probably some slang used that doesn't have an exact English translation

That's must be one of the biggest problems to be overcome in the sub-titleing game. Gotta be a tough gig. (let's see them tranlate that)
For sure, I'd rather hear the actors original voices every time.
...but I can see where if a large majority of the films that were shown were done in another language I'd be more accepting to dubbed.

Agreed and agreed. Great minds thinking alike, eh? :roll:
Fish
User avatar
fish
Crew Member
 
Posts: 16659
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:34 am
Location: Adelaide, Oz

Postby fish » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:47 am

mpox wrote:This is a translation of the script, I had it bookmarked from back when I first saw the movie:
http://f-amal.weisenbacher.com/fascript.htm

I notice from the script, in the coming out scene, it reads:
ELIN: I'm not making fun of you! But is it true? That you are in love with me? Because if you are... so I am... with you.

CAMILLA: Hello?

AGNES: Are you?

Elin nods.


Whereas in the finished movie It's Elin who asks "Are you?" and Agnes who nods.

I make this comment not in criticism but only in praise, because Agnes' gentle little nod is a truly beautiful moment in an already beautiful film.

Cudos to whoever (Lucas?) suggested the change.
Fish
User avatar
fish
Crew Member
 
Posts: 16659
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:34 am
Location: Adelaide, Oz

Postby snaps » Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:54 pm

I really agree with all the points made about translating into a teen idiom contemporaneous with the date and setting. It's an awkward compromise as words like ''wicked'' and ''sick'' (meaning the OPPOSITE) in time may seem as confusingly outmoded as the misuse of in-words like ''crucial'' or ''radical'' in previous decades. The only word I can think of from that time 1997/8 that everyone seemed to use (at least in UK) was ''pants'', as in ''Amal is pants'' :shock: which would sound absurd now! :) ''Cool'' 8) seems to be one of only a few which has survived decades being an ''in-word'' .
User avatar
snaps
Crew Member
 
Posts: 2151
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:41 pm
Location: Fiskargatan 9, Södermalm, 11620 STOCKHOLM

Postby snaps » Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:14 pm

On the question of script re-writes it would not be uncommon to have several versions for any scene. I think Ole points out that the ''O boy'' scene at the end used was the ninth draft. I read one review which slammed the scene and said it should have ended after the WC cubicle outing. To me the ''O boy'' scene is perfect and realistic, give both Elin's lack and Agnes (total) lack of experience. After the drama and bravura of the cubicle, they would both be in the uncharted territory of ''where do we go from here? Where do we start?" The self-conscious prattle over chocolate milk seems very true to the situation.

I get the impression that Lukas was pretty open ended in taking on board ideas and not being heavy handed in direction. Although both he and Alex cite the UK improvisional director Mike Leigh as an influence, he was certainly wise, given the age and experience of the actors, to stick to script once agreed.
User avatar
snaps
Crew Member
 
Posts: 2151
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:41 pm
Location: Fiskargatan 9, Södermalm, 11620 STOCKHOLM

PreviousNext

Return to Fucking Åmål (Show Me Love)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests